Upgrade rules? this was brought to our attention via email, whats with all these riders getting cat upgrades with little or NO results, anyone have any idea?
Give us details. How many riders have been upgraded, from what cat to what cat.
Seems there's a void in MI officials, with some of the guys who have done it for YEARS just getting burnt out, yet many long time racers who've TAKEN much from the sport, don't feel like giving back.
Seriously, if you've been racing in MI for 20+ years and never
1) Promoted a race 2) Been an official 3) Served as an officer of a USCF Club
No kidding. I'm tired of people who want to make us feel bad for just wanting to be bike racers. I don't want to promote a race, be an official, or be affiliated with a USCF club in anyway. I just want to show up and race my bike. So why does that make me a bad guy?
I love to eat at McDonald's too. Does that mean I should go manage one of their stores?
As far as the upgrade thing goes, riders in Michigan have been getting the pass for years. Want an upgrade? Just go ask for one, make up a nice little resume, and away you go.
Who cares? You race at to high of a category and get blown out the back. As long as you're not dangerous, reality hits you quick and you down grade. Just race your bike.
A lot of guys want to upgrade so that they can work as part of a team. The reality is that unless you're kicking ass in the category you're upgrading from, you're going to be useless to your team in your new category. Only the best from each category should be moving up. Until you show up every weekend confident that you're going to be top 5 or better, stay in the category you're in and learn to get some results.
Who cares? You race at to high of a category and get blown out the back. As long as you're not dangerous, reality hits you quick and you down grade. Just race your bike................................i care i dont want my season ruined by some jackfuck who cant pedal through a corner,or is choppin guys left and right. or is gapping the field off everytime they get mixed in the rotation
its the just ask, and you shall recieve rule, sucks. but true, there have only been a few situations where its been a issue in the 1-2 field. most of the riders have enough group riding experience to get through.
I say do away with categories, and race everyone in the "A" "B" "C" format. the weak get stronger, and learn faster. The strong have more adversaries and more competition. The promoters don't have to host 27 different class/categories per race, and we can all go have a beer after!
riders should not upgrade unless they learn how to win in their category. otherwise once they upgrade, they might be strong as hell, but they will not win because they never learned how in easier categories, and can only improve so much - and just feel like tools. not to mention, might be hazardous to the other guys in the category.
In any sport: "train like an amateur, loose like an amateur" You have to surround yourself with quality people who know how to race and train...get guys like J.Bruce, Papa T., Mike Homan and the rest of the "old guard" (or better yet Clare Young!) yellin at you for stupid errors or hazardous moves, and you learn REAL QUICK!
And don't bust my ballz becuase I am a racer and not a promoter or an official. At the same time, don't bust my ballz for going to school and not being a teacher.
The old argument that we just want to be racers and shouldn't have to be bothered with promoting a race here and there, or helping out in other ways by giving back to the sport is b.s. Since 99% of us have never been paid, even at the pro 1,2 level, most of us reley soley on sponsorship dollars to foot the bill for our week in and week out racing addiction. Where do you think that comes from? Individuals and companies that like cycling enough to want to GIVE BACK to the sport by helping others out. Thus, it becomes the responsibilty of the racers (especially the older ones's, and by that I mean guys that are in their 30's and 40's that have been at it for years) to help keep the sport alive at the local levels by promoting races or helping to organize clubs/rides/etc...just remember those that were doing that when you were 20 years old and just starting out, where do you think they came from? I can think of at least five guys that made an impact on me through the years as I was learning the ropes, all were racers and all were older. Mentor the young and the sport will thrive.
And don't post anonymously, it takes away your credibility since you are hiding behind the cloak of the internet.
I approached the sport with the attitude that if I raced with the best possible guys then I would improve faster. I got a CAT 2 upgrade based off of a few CAT 3 top 5 placings. My first races in the 1/2's were tough but they made me stronger. This was in 2004 with Bikesport. I didn't place at all but did a lot of racing and raced aggressively and always pushed myself. It has taken me 3years since then, 1 year spent in Belgium, and Last season racing under the great guidance of riders like Brian A. Rob Dac, Jim Bruce and Tom Archer as well as years of help from my coach before I have been lucky enough to win a few races. I think either approach can work, it probably depends on the rider. As long as the rider is safe I don't see a problem with fast upgrades.
And I know my spelling sucks, but thats ok, I don't mind getting picked on for it.
Yeah if you can't win or at least finish top 3 several times in your category you should generally wait to upgrade. You'll be a better racer long term if you learn the tactics needed to win in the lower cats.
Although I can see the point of a guy who does okay in the 4's but wants to be a 3 to get a longer harder race. Those kind of people often get the same non-results in either category. Like a guy who is strong but can't/doesn't like to sprint.
3 to 2 is another story. If you can't CONSISTENTLY place high in 3, don't bother going to 2. You won't have much fun there.
just because your riding with fast groups or club racing doesnt give you the right to be pack filler in upper cats i agree, this whole thread is a good, but if giving guys the hook up so our local scene can stay strong, help race promoters, the shops sell bikes and whole foods sell clif bars. who cares. the strong ones usually prevail and the weak are dropped and left to fight another day. Keep up the work TMS. Ilove checkin out the new posts ANON and fuckin proud of it.
While it's obviously debatable whether or not someone should be able to upgrade prematurely, I just wonder why USCF has rules for upgrades at all if they don't follow them. They should be revised or canned if the regional directors consistently disregard them.
The upgrade "rules" are technically guidelines, meaning that regional reps have discretion in enforcing them. In some regions they enforce the rules down to the letter, while other places (like MI) are a bit more lax. It would be silly to enforce the rules to the letter here because a lot of races on the MI calendar don't meet the upgrade requirements (either because the fields are too small or the races are too short). If they did enforce the rules to the letter there would only be two people upgrading per year.
Having said that, the local officials could be a bit more stringent on the upgrade issue. It does seem like a lot of guys are upgrading before they are ready. Just look at how small the cat 3 fields are this year, my guess is that is primarily because a bunch of guys get one or two top 10 finishes and then decide they're ready to move up. Call me new school or new age or whatever, but I think that staying down in category a bit longer and really learning how to win is the best way to do things. Unless someone is just supremely talented and crushing the field every week, I think that moving up one category per year from 4 on up is the best way to do things.
Cat 3 racing is boring and negative (not that 1-2 racing can't be negative)...And it favors sprinters, something I'm not. for losers like me 3/4 racing was too short and aggravating 'cause breakaways would NEVER work and the sprints would usually end in carnage.
I'm generalizing a little, but when I upgraded out of the 3's it was 'cause I was riding lots with the local 2's and in ohio you could race 1-2-3 and/or 3-4 and these were HARD races. I got stronger 'cause I raced with the big boys in Cat "A" type races and not grinding it out in cat. 3 races.
Having said that, I don't think there are enough racers in the region to have a category 1 thru 5 structure. Maybe in california or on the east coast, but not here where a "big" race fields 60-70 racers. Of course, if I were in California I probably wouldn't race 'cause it's so cool just to go out and ride out there...And the group rides are bigger than the races around here....
....And I suck.
And as for promoting/officiating? Hmmm....I've got 30-40 years left in my so-called life, you never know....
(OH cat 3 RR champ 1998....Or was it 99...One of those years last decade)
I'm with the old approach...get fast, really fast at the lower category before moving up. Someone said you should be a top 5 threat every race you enter, and I think that's about right. Still, it's a lose/lose situation no matter what you do. If you upgrade early, some people call you a noob/crash threat/whatever. If you tear it up in the lower category, you get called a sandbagger.
In the end, as long as you're safe, and know what the hell you're doing in the group...make your own decision and ignore the idiots that always have to find something to bitch about.
Upgrade rules? this was brought to our attention via email, whats with all these riders getting cat upgrades with little or NO results, anyone have any idea? 
32 comments:
its not who you know , but who you blow.
Give us details. How many riders have been upgraded, from what cat to what cat.
Seems there's a void in MI officials, with some of the guys who have done it for YEARS just getting burnt out, yet many long time racers who've TAKEN much from the sport, don't feel like giving back.
Seriously, if you've been racing in MI for 20+ years and never
1) Promoted a race
2) Been an official
3) Served as an officer of a USCF Club
or
4) Anything similar to 1-2-3 above
let me ask you this,
WHAT THE F____ are you DOING????
huh?
No kidding. I'm tired of people who want to make us feel bad for just wanting to be bike racers. I don't want to promote a race, be an official, or be affiliated with a USCF club in anyway. I just want to show up and race my bike. So why does that make me a bad guy?
I love to eat at McDonald's too. Does that mean I should go manage one of their stores?
As far as the upgrade thing goes, riders in Michigan have been getting the pass for years. Want an upgrade? Just go ask for one, make up a nice little resume, and away you go.
Who cares?
You race at to high of a category and get blown out the back.
As long as you're not dangerous, reality hits you quick and you down grade.
Just race your bike.
A lot of guys want to upgrade so that they can work as part of a team. The reality is that unless you're kicking ass in the category you're upgrading from, you're going to be useless to your team in your new category. Only the best from each category should be moving up. Until you show up every weekend confident that you're going to be top 5 or better, stay in the category you're in and learn to get some results.
Who cares?
You race at to high of a category and get blown out the back.
As long as you're not dangerous, reality hits you quick and you down grade.
Just race your bike................................i care i dont want my season ruined by some jackfuck who cant pedal through a corner,or is choppin guys left and right. or is gapping the field off everytime they get mixed in the rotation
its the just ask, and you shall recieve rule, sucks. but true, there have only been a few situations where its been a issue in the 1-2 field. most of the riders have enough group riding experience to get through.
I say do away with categories, and race everyone in the "A" "B" "C" format. the weak get stronger, and learn faster. The strong have more adversaries and more competition. The promoters don't have to host 27 different class/categories per race, and we can all go have a beer after!
VENOM
I like beer.
i like sex
i thought that was supposed to be Glen. Kinda strung out looking.
riders should not upgrade unless they learn how to win in their category. otherwise once they upgrade, they might be strong as hell, but they will not win because they never learned how in easier categories, and can only improve so much - and just feel like tools. not to mention, might be hazardous to the other guys in the category.
makes sense, but too many follow the lead of those once mislead by the notion, to get better you must put yourself with those better from the start.
huh?
"mislead by the notion..." BAH!
In any sport: "train like an amateur, loose like an amateur" You have to surround yourself with quality people who know how to race and train...get guys like J.Bruce, Papa T., Mike Homan and the rest of the "old guard" (or better yet Clare Young!) yellin at you for stupid errors or hazardous moves, and you learn REAL QUICK!
And don't bust my ballz becuase I am a racer and not a promoter or an official. At the same time, don't bust my ballz for going to school and not being a teacher.
Signed,
CAT I via the old school method.
The old argument that we just want to be racers and shouldn't have to be bothered with promoting a race here and there, or helping out in other ways by giving back to the sport is b.s. Since 99% of us have never been paid, even at the pro 1,2 level, most of us reley soley on sponsorship dollars to foot the bill for our week in and week out racing addiction. Where do you think that comes from? Individuals and companies that like cycling enough to want to GIVE BACK to the sport by helping others out. Thus, it becomes the responsibilty of the racers (especially the older ones's, and by that I mean guys that are in their 30's and 40's that have been at it for years) to help keep the sport alive at the local levels by promoting races or helping to organize clubs/rides/etc...just remember those that were doing that when you were 20 years old and just starting out, where do you think they came from? I can think of at least five guys that made an impact on me through the years as I was learning the ropes, all were racers and all were older. Mentor the young and the sport will thrive.
And don't post anonymously, it takes away your credibility since you are hiding behind the cloak of the internet.
Jason Karew
anominity reveals the most vivid truths...
honor your opinion, jason, but don't question the credibility of an opinion simply because it's anonymous.
plus my spelling sucks, so i don't want people to laugh at me.
we agree whole heartedly. Thanks to all those that keep the lines of communication open, anon, or legit
I approached the sport with the attitude that if I raced with the best possible guys then I would improve faster. I got a CAT 2 upgrade based off of a few CAT 3 top 5 placings. My first races in the 1/2's were tough but they made me stronger. This was in 2004 with Bikesport. I didn't place at all but did a lot of racing and raced aggressively and always pushed myself. It has taken me 3years since then, 1 year spent in Belgium, and Last season racing under the great guidance of riders like Brian A. Rob Dac, Jim Bruce and Tom Archer as well as years of help from my coach before I have been lucky enough to win a few races. I think either approach can work, it probably depends on the rider. As long as the rider is safe I don't see a problem with fast upgrades.
And I know my spelling sucks, but thats ok, I don't mind getting picked on for it.
Yeah if you can't win or at least finish top 3 several times in your category you should generally wait to upgrade. You'll be a better racer long term if you learn the tactics needed to win in the lower cats.
Although I can see the point of a guy who does okay in the 4's but wants to be a 3 to get a longer harder race. Those kind of people often get the same non-results in either category. Like a guy who is strong but can't/doesn't like to sprint.
3 to 2 is another story. If you can't CONSISTENTLY place high in 3, don't bother going to 2. You won't have much fun there.
on helping give back, I give back 30 bucks every weekend, that should suffice...
just because your riding with fast groups or club racing doesnt give you the right to be pack filler in upper cats i agree, this whole thread is a good, but if giving guys the hook up so our local scene can stay strong, help race promoters, the shops sell bikes and whole foods sell clif bars. who cares. the strong ones usually prevail and the weak are dropped and left to fight another day.
Keep up the work TMS. Ilove checkin out the new posts ANON and fuckin proud of it.
While it's obviously debatable whether or not someone should be able to upgrade prematurely, I just wonder why USCF has rules for upgrades at all if they don't follow them. They should be revised or canned if the regional directors consistently disregard them.
The upgrade "rules" are technically guidelines, meaning that regional reps have discretion in enforcing them. In some regions they enforce the rules down to the letter, while other places (like MI) are a bit more lax. It would be silly to enforce the rules to the letter here because a lot of races on the MI calendar don't meet the upgrade requirements (either because the fields are too small or the races are too short). If they did enforce the rules to the letter there would only be two people upgrading per year.
Having said that, the local officials could be a bit more stringent on the upgrade issue. It does seem like a lot of guys are upgrading before they are ready. Just look at how small the cat 3 fields are this year, my guess is that is primarily because a bunch of guys get one or two top 10 finishes and then decide they're ready to move up. Call me new school or new age or whatever, but I think that staying down in category a bit longer and really learning how to win is the best way to do things. Unless someone is just supremely talented and crushing the field every week, I think that moving up one category per year from 4 on up is the best way to do things.
speaking of anonymous posting...isn't this whole MichScene anon? Like, who is this guy/girl anyways? :) cloak and dagger, man...cloak and dagger.
Cat 3 racing is boring and negative (not that 1-2 racing can't be negative)...And it favors sprinters, something I'm not. for losers like me 3/4 racing was too short and aggravating 'cause breakaways would NEVER work and the sprints would usually end in carnage.
I'm generalizing a little, but when I upgraded out of the 3's it was 'cause I was riding lots with the local 2's and in ohio you could race 1-2-3 and/or 3-4 and these were HARD races. I got stronger 'cause I raced with the big boys in Cat "A" type races and not grinding it out in cat. 3 races.
Having said that, I don't think there are enough racers in the region to have a category 1 thru 5 structure. Maybe in california or on the east coast, but not here where a "big" race fields 60-70 racers. Of course, if I were in California I probably wouldn't race 'cause it's so cool just to go out and ride out there...And the group rides are bigger than the races around here....
....And I suck.
And as for promoting/officiating? Hmmm....I've got 30-40 years left in my so-called life, you never know....
(OH cat 3 RR champ 1998....Or was it 99...One of those years last decade)
I'm with the old approach...get fast, really fast at the lower category before moving up. Someone said you should be a top 5 threat every race you enter, and I think that's about right. Still, it's a lose/lose situation no matter what you do. If you upgrade early, some people call you a noob/crash threat/whatever. If you tear it up in the lower category, you get called a sandbagger.
In the end, as long as you're safe, and know what the hell you're doing in the group...make your own decision and ignore the idiots that always have to find something to bitch about.
dang, all are good comments sandbaggin, thats whole nother subject. anon
So who upgraded? venom?
themselves, no disrespect, but how did Prygowski upgraded, he is kinda sketchy and needs alittle more time to cook.
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