Monday, November 02, 2009

SLEEP TALKIN



Those that don't know me, I'm basher, and I'm what you would call a no shit guy, or in other words an asshole..TMS asked me to say a few words...I didn't plan on speaking about the grumblings and rumblings of what has been going down on the east side of our state as of late, so i thought about and well i cant keep quiet any longer, so Ive got nothing better to do at this time of the night but shoot my mouth off about the comments on the last MEAT post. So if you wanna hear my take, and can keep on my wheel, stick around, if you don't oh well let the gap open and keep fooling yourself.


Just like T i too have been around the scene for awhile I have seen birth, death and when i want to, i can recall all the rest. I will shoot from the hip, but will not mean to insult, but so be it if it does, as the Fate of quality cross is at stake here, and i cant keep from stay in quiet . i may not go in any order, but it will all pertain to the same thing.

picture this, your in a rock band, you start out playing in the garage, time goes on you get better, cut 4 c.d.s or maybe 5, get a small following..you move up through the chain, make somewhat enough to play large venues, 8 to be exact. Now for the next 7-10 odd years you play at the same concert halls around the metro area, year in year out. Sounds pretty boring huh, for you and your fans right? well its very similar to what Ive seen here in Michigan with another type of racing, ITS NOT CROSS..think about it..many years ago it was new, fun and the rider turnout was great, time went on things stayed the same.. riders changed, some married, some died and some moved away. Now we see a series that's a mere shell of former self..
sound familiar?

the first shot from the hip...The venues that are getting used need a change, NO i don't mean a shuffle on the schedule, A full change I dunno.. maybe somewhere else in the parks, or other areas.. but you cant tell me that this all they have to work with. with the exception of the Night cross at Munson and the battle at the Fort..the rest are ho hum, Put some effort into it. make us think you really care about all the groups not just C's and B's

Shot #2.. The courses themselves, To be flat faced straight honest! are piss poor. sorry i said it I had to...CROSS is hard enough when your only getting 20% of oxygen to the brain..But gosh darn it doesn't need to be a obstacle course, Why barriers before the run up at lower Huron? why not create some excitement and let riders try to ride the hill? some will, some wont....sounds exciting to me to see who can make it to the top, I recall many moons back when the SIMONSTER was riding a rigid Giant mtb and storming that bitch. IT WAS AWESOME Why lay logs in the sand? or having barriers before, we all know how to ride that shit! Right? ....VETS park was just plain stupid THERE i said it. You got hills, off camber and mud, that in itself is hard. But adding all this weaving and dodging just magnifies it. No I'm not saying less turns would make the Wiz and also ran margins closer..but with a more flowing course it may allow the beggars to stay together longer, the constant up and d down and yo yoing just blows em apart. LESS is more. The elite race on Sunday just looked like a act of survival after lap 1. No before all the shit throwing starts, I DON'T want to do it.. But god damit use your head, If your gonna do the job, do it right...think of yourself rollin at The Elite field speeds. The C's and B's will enjoy just as much...your not gonna scare em off or offend them.... what next? rings of fire, or how about trip wires in the beach at stony..

Shot #3. cross is fucking HARD PERIOD....anyone who says it F.U.N isnt racing at REDLINE and probably riding around smiling. or they don't really care about there results... Which is OK I see no problem with that but. Because its hard is also the reason why the Elite field is suffering. To keep from getting your ass chopped off and then lapped while stopping to look for it takes some dedication and time spent perfecting the skills, coming in cold or with little or no racing in the legs only mean 1 thing..... disappointment..I'm calling out all the lappers.... you cant play a mans game without doing mans work sorry guys.. Truth be told. I love you guys... Ask Saari, Wiz, Parmalee and few others and there gonna tell you, they probably have some hard ass racing or tough training in there legs before Sept 1st. You can get away with half in it in the B field , and when i mean half in it..... little to no cross workouts, sporadic interval workouts, etc....you can do little to nothing to race C, (NO DISRESPECT, but truth, check the results of those went up a class only to get it chopped off......) But stepping into the Elite ring or the top 3 in the Masters you better have the engine pretty well tuned and running lean, come November 1 have the octane boost on hand, save the nitrous for the last 3 weeks and put it down. the Season is short.. hell its dam near done already. Getting good is Hardwork it doesn't come easy. You think Wiz, saari, and Foshag walked into the top 5, No those guys as well as few others took there hits for many many seasons before they began to develop, But as a society in whole we want it right now! not 5 yrs !!!yes, 5yrs..less if your gifted.

shot #4 why the elite field is barely creating a pulse? UH ITS HARD we know that... getting top 5 even with only 8 guys is like spending a night in Compton. the pay out is small and the compensation is smallER....Maybe... just Maybe if the pay was deeper you would get more riders willing to commit, Its all about commitment right? But knowing that you don't have snow balls chance in hell of cracking the top 5 , why try? But how about top 8? Maybe that would keep the class jumpers from jumping ship a month into to the season when they realise they don't got it.( those that do it stop it...it looks ridiculous..Don't wanna get lapped train harder, cant do it? dont bounce around.. I fucking hate that!) Ok how about the guys that race up the 1st few races only to drop down?... Come on guys be realistic... I understand why you do it, i guess..... but in the next breath riding around by yourself and waiting to get lapped isn't gonna make you faster RIDING YOUR BIKE DOES.......if you cant top 3 your B race or masters field on a consistent basis don't move up! its OK no ones pushing ya...but... Better yet it the increase in $$$, may draw out that guy in the B field who has won the class at least once in the last 4 years. You know who you are ...time to step up or step off....Or how about this, combine some of the fields. how about masters 35+, no others no 50+ 35 and over. wanna get really crazy? eliminate the C race. YES that's right A, or B pay the A race 12 deep, and spruce up the swag in the B race to entice the C's .is it USCF legal??? does it matter??? only thing the Vampires at USA cycling care about is getting there dough! a bigger field is way more exciting and everyone sticks around. Have you looked around at the spectators at this years events when the masters are out there? it looks like Detroit dead empty.
Shot #5 were have all the soldiers gone? Theres probably a few of you old timers out there saying..Man Back in my day .......we had guys like..Herriman, Brian Adams, Archer, Blair Dudley, Nick Durrie, Scotty Q, Brett Robinson, Simonster, Tucker Ollander. Rob Foshag Pappa T .the list goes on...we had 25+ rider fields guys battling it out 8-10 getting lapped..were did they all go? good question only they can answer that, but if you ask them you might be surprised on what they have to say. we all change directions are many as well as reasons.
shot#6 the promotion of the whole show, at one time flyer's were sent out to local bike shops, posters were made to promote and Bike shops names were lay ed on the barriers for all to see. with all do respect the announcer makes the small crowd quite aware of who is paying the elites, but if i was a shop id have to question if its money well spent, half the time you don't even know which shop or who is sponsoring what race. NOT good. the series/sport is not that strong enough to self promote, effort is needed to keep it thriving and keep interest high.
shot #7 The competition, NO not the other guy. but the other type of racing..going against a full road season and MTb season is tough. There is so much great racing from April until September its hard to compete, cross will always be fringe and lower number sport, so when the numbers drop it looks worse than it is. Maybe if our road season and all the mtb races were lower quality cross would see a rise merely for the fact of a lust for racing. who knows..
shot#8 the economy, lets face it with exception of a few.. money is tight. sponsors are thin and bicycle shops cant do all the work to fund a race series. without sponsors or shop incentive there is little to no excitement. The Munson race is by far the best shop promoted event, a shop tent food. a family like atmoshpere,Half the races you don't see any shop employees or know who's sponsoring what, but because the economy is poor, shops cant afford to throw out swag or more $$. It's simple.A large out side sponsor is needed for the series, but being the State is near poverty, this may be a tough hurdle... enuff said.
I'm out... empty, too tired to reload..spent.
In wrapping up... it all comes down to change, and life cycles, cross is not immune to change and this year has shown how dynamic a sport can be, Running a race series isn't easy, keeping track of points, setting up the courses, awards, etc..is allot of work i understand. But without the incentive of a chance to go to the next level may be bad. I seen the exact same thing happen to another sport in cycling in Michigan. I watched the ship sink, It resurfaced a few years later but it was never the same, things that change rarely are the same right? I think in the future you may see a smaller series with more emphasis on quality rather than quantity.. but for now..it will have its ups and downs, it may get worse and may get better. try to embrace the time you have with it , change is coming, But it wont happen tonight.
don't let the bed bugs bite.

81 comments:

Anonymous said...

BRAVO!

Anonymous said...

Don't know why you're saying it's dead. Maybe just in the A race.

I think the C's and B's have had their largest fields ever this year.

Must just be the top guys......

Cruise said...

Agreed man, I've been really upset about the lack of incentive to improve in pretty much all of MI racing.

Why upgrade to a pro/1/2 when you can sandbag 3's and make a lot more money?

It's really bad for mtn bike when only top 5 out of the 300 people that go to those races are getting any compensation. And it's even worse for Cross, when the payout is even weaker. Sure, they've been great about promoting all of the lower categories, but there needs to be an incentive to improve and be the best you can be. Yeah, it's great that a lot of people are racing and having fun, but people aren't challenging themselves, and the people who do get very little credit or recognition.

It's odd how our spring training series and even cyclocross races can offer little to know payouts and if you just drive south a few hours to Ohio, their races have over 5x what the payout in MI is, even for the smaller races with the same number of turnout.

There definitely is a pattern of riders leaving the scene, and it's for those obvious reasons. I know I want to improve and make it to the next level and there's a good possibility I won't be doing many MI races next year and even this fall unless things change.

Anonymous said...

Too many races. End of story. In any given wkd one could pick from 3events in Oakland County alone. You've got The Wiz in Ann Arbor, Simonster at Boyne, Anderson racing in Alpena, Graham in Grand Rapids, Tanguy at Stoney, etc. We need one KICK AZZ series that brings all the horsepower together. WORS in Wisco for example. Bring on the Iceman!!! It's a masterpiece of a race and race promotion.

Lets hash this out at the bar this Saturday night guys and gals.

Joe B.

Anonymous said...

Sensational!
I feel ya Basher.
You must have had that thinking cap working overtime last night.
MANY good thoughts.

Anonymous said...

I GOTTA AGREE WITH YA, ON ALL THE ABOVE AND THOSE THAT POSTED THERE COMMENTS.
ITS A MESS

Anonymous said...

I think the C's and B's have had their largest fields ever this year


The only reason the C and B fields are what they are is because there all some what new to the sport, as soon as they get seasoned with a few years, there burned out.

Anonymous said...

I'm finding it hard to be motivated to race locally when only 9 guys line it up


go figure

The Lizard King said...

To our freedom we must ride.

luz's CX said...

I don't think it's dead, heck the C's and B's fields are bigger than ever. I think the Elites could do a bit to help the scene and in a way, help themselves.

Take this -

Wiz wins on Sat @ Vets. Then on Sun, he just drills it, dropping Burke and Saari to fight it out for 2nd. Last I checked, Wiz and Burke were on the same team. I mean Wiz won on Sat, is leading the series, it's 3 guys away, 2 on the same team. Why not sit on Saaris wheel, force him to attack and wear him down, setting up Burke for the win? If Burke couldnt' seal the deal, Wiz would be well rested and could crush it later on. Why just crush everyone from the start and pop off a teammate? I don't get it......

Anonymous said...

We need a united Michigan 'Cross series in order to continue to move forward as a scene.

However.

Rick Plite won't put on a USAC race. For the $3 insurance charge per rider I can't blame him.

Robert's machine is what it is. And it is expensive to run.

Aside from a few, most west coast riders stay home. Same with the east coasters. Truly unfortunate.

It would to tough to do and painful for all involved, but probably better for MI 'cross in the end.

Shop sponsors? Why not let the racers's entry fees pay the prizes? 50/50? Who goes to a bike shop after 'cross races anyway?

Get rid of series awards. They lend to sandbagging. Force upgrades like the Kiss Cross crew.

the MICHIGANSCENE said...

Wiz wins on Sat @ Vets. Then on Sun, he just drills it, dropping Burke and Saari to fight it out for 2nd. Last I checked, Wiz and Burke were on the same team. I mean Wiz won on Sat, is leading the series, it's 3 guys away, 2 on the same team. Why not sit on Saaris wheel, force him to attack and wear him down, setting up Burke for the win? If Burke couldnt' seal the deal, Wiz would be well rested and could crush it later on. Why just crush everyone from the start and pop off a teammate? I don't get it......


yes, we couldnt figure that out either.

Anonymous said...

teammates in 'cross what is this the blue wave?

Anonymous said...

teammates in 'cross what is this the blue wave


NO its not the blue wave,


NEVER BEFORE AND NEVER AGAIN

Anonymous said...

the horse is dead, the few that care will keep floggin it. As long as we have a healthy road/mtb scene, and the eastside promoter continues the path that he has for the past decade, Its will stay the same All the bitchin and complaining will not make it better. JoeL has made a step in the right direction running a few OTHER events. Still like another anon post made you need a State wide series, But i dont see that happening. Im a cross fan but cant see how the elite guys can stay motivated year after year.

mlovejoy said...

No, your scene is not dead. Forcing fewer races is silly, it will happen on its own if needed. The easiest way to avoid the small turnout in the elites for the tailwind races is reducing the number of races and choices for the category-droppers. Go back to 3 races with the A race for elites and cat 123 35+ masters. B race for elite women, Cat 3s, 45+, 55+, and juniors 17-18. C race for Cat 4s, Cat 3/4 women, Juniors under 16, and Cat 4 Masters. Money for only the elite women and men and 123 masters. And have only one start for each race. When the numbers increase, then add races. Cross is more fun when the field size is bigger, and it provides more practice for the out of state races.

If you like this idea, then let Robert know. If enough people express an idea, he'll give you what you want.

the MICHIGANSCENE said...

that is one of the best posts yet.
thanks Mark!

Anonymous said...

Allright.
a) Everyone who is racing 'CX this year dig out your license. Look at it. If your 'CX category is 2 (or 1), register for Stoney as an Elite. At least get your head kicked in for the good of that field, if for nothing else than to help the truly bad ass elites in this state get some practice dodging lappers. Just think, an extra 15 minutes of fame! Who is with me? I am getting killed in the B's this year but am a 2, so if I can let the ego go. . . The start will feel like jumping into a lake in February. Invigorating.
b) for Tailwind next year, why not do away with series for the C's, keep it for the B's, BUT upgrade B's based off of the USCF points system (7 points for a win, 5 for 2nd etc.)and upgrade at 15 points. Do away with State championship medals for c's and b's ("tallest midget" awards) and only award state championships to to Elite, Women's elite, and Masters 35+ and 45+.
Thoughts?

the MICHIGANSCENE said...

THAT WAS PERFECT...


WERE GETTING THERE..



BASHER

I LOVE THE PART ABOUT THE MIDGET

Anonymous said...

i love the idea of forced upgrades. constantly getting top 3 in your category? MOVE UP!

Anonymous said...

LIKE THESE TWO

ANDY BROWN B RACE
BRIAN GOOCHER C RACE

Anonymous said...

If we enforce the move up uniformly, then the likes of Brown and Goocher (along with JB who DID move up) will not be hung out to dry-lapped and humiliated every week.

Anonymous said...

Exactly!
You might get two (sort-of) elite races going on at the same time, but so what? Hardly ANYONE in the elite 35+ scene nationally can beat Wiz or Weinert, so learn to take it like a man. Who knows, you might just make it to the front one day. . .Let's pack the Elite field two weeks from now.
Hold hands and walk into the helicopter blades, as it were.

Anonymous said...

agree

i can tell you, i got my ass handed to me by the pony, the ace, as well as a few others for sometime. But i took my beatings, and stuck it out!! year in, year out. And well what do you know?

It worked.

Like they say

it doesnt happen over night.

rob foshag

Matt said...

I hope Rob Foshag makes a showing at the State Championship to defend his title. You road a great race last year Rob, and we miss having you this season. Make a comeback for the season finale.

Anonymous said...

I agree with enforcing mandatory upgrades, but disagree about JB; HE isn't getting humiliated, at least he shouldn't feel that way about it; At least he is out there racing at the next level for him. I'm more embarrassed by watching people win in the other fields by huge margins. Way to go guys!! I think there is a kickball game at the middle school you can get in on around lunch time!
I forgot, a sincere shout out to Simon Bailey for stepping up this year.

Anonymous said...

Who will be at Stoney next week in the elite field. Isn't that the weekend of the usgp in New Jersey. The A race could be even smaller than 8 riders that weekend. Sad

Anonymous said...

I will give my props to Simon Bailey also for taking the big step and staying there.

Anonymous said...

Hank, hey bro thanks for the props! A break has done me wonders, I miss being there a TON The only cross race i got to see was Munson, and Ill tell ya, I couldnt even watch the start.

Ill see ya at the State championship, i got something to return.

Anonymous said...

That kid in the junior race, Brandon Goocher, should have to move up. He has been killing all the others juniors for year. Move up sand bagger

Anonymous said...

at least race the C's
that lil shit just rides off the front, and has been for 4+ years.

lil sandbaggin sob

mlovejoy said...

Not sure how forced upgrades will effect the masters categories. I did a quick check and in Sunday's race there were about 17 riders in other races who completed their 6 laps faster than Simon Bailey. Most of those were in the two Masters categories. (There was also one in the SS class and an elite woman(!)) I have no problem with those who race in their age category (where are you going to draw the line?). If there were huge fields in the elite race, we wouldn't be discussing this.

Anonymous said...

That kid in the junior race, Brandon Goocher, should have to move up. He has been killing all the others juniors for year. Move up sand bagger



like father like son

Anonymous said...

Good point mark. How about 35+ becomming cat 3,4 only?

Anonymous said...

Good point mark. How about 35+ becomming cat 3,4 only?

thats a great idea,

as the masters class seems to be dumping ground for guys 35+ no matter what there card reads. You cant race masters on the road unless your at least a Cat 4 and even thats a stretch.

Anonymous said...

More Michigan races need to be like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hNu4_yoqLo

That was THEE COOLEST CX race in Michigan in 10 years!!!

HUGE props to the promoters!!!

Anonymous said...

no one cares about cross on the west side, but that is why kiss-cross works. They get big fields of us who arnt too serious about it, but all show up because its low key.

Anonymous said...

If your going to be naming names don't post anon, your telling people to man up and take their licks, then post your name.



And do they really pay the b-racers? I'll need to drop down and get in to the money.

Anonymous said...

I believe moving folks from one group/Cat to another is just grabbing at straws. So ya get 12 rather than 8 in the elite class. Big deal. Listen, this is a much larger issue my friends. As I said in a post earlier, there are too many races state and nationwide. It's a double edged sword I suppose as it makes things convenient. Closer to home. As far as this "low key" and/or "grassroots" stuff...BAH! IT'S RACING DAMMIT! "Oh it's low key so I can take it easy." BS! Save low key and grassroots for the weekly post ride hammerfest beer at the back of my van. Lets get down to bizz with a killer series that utilizes the best Michigan venues possible.

I race MTB mostly and have managed some top 5's in the elite field. But lets be honest, if all the talent from the mitten showed up I'd be way lucky to crack a top 10 or 15. But dammit, that's the real friggin' deal. In the end it's only going to make us all better.

Looking ahead. I think it's safe to say that most of us love to ride and race. MTB, road and CX. Most everyone I know competes in each discipline a handfull of times each year. So, why not a kick azz series that encompasses all of these??? That would rock! Think about it, 8 - 10 big events. All part of a true state championship pts series. MTB racing at Boyne, Road up around Lelanau and a CX race down in D-town racing through old blown out buildings and sh!t. Hell ya! The final event could be one that requires skill in all 3. Similar to that Ironcross gig. I'm getting pumped just thinking about it. I guarantee this would bring in the numbers. It would be a solid kick azz fun series. Giving everyone a chance to exploit their strengths AND, in the end, finding that best all arounder.

Since I'm on a roll, in my opinion, all these classes nowadays are nuts. Single Speed 30-31, Gears 20-24, No Gears 0-100, unicycle class, unicycle no seat class, tandem, single speed tandem with child buggy. GOOD LORD! When will it end. I say ONE BIKE, ONE CLASS BITCHIZ! Podium is top 3. The end. Everything is SOOOO overly diluted. Except my beer.

Bring on the Iceman. The nerves, the anxiousness, jitters, excitement and all that comes with a truly killer event looming.

See ya!
Joe B.

Ps. Yes, I know my proposal wouldn't work with regards to the USA Cycling license guidelines, points, up/downgrades, etc. The heck with that. Let's pioneer a new movement in the sport of cycling Michigan!

Anonymous said...

Was that Mad Anthony race part of Tailwind? I didn't see that on the schedule and I'm sorry I missed it. Who put that race on, Tailwind? That looked incredible.

Where is that place?

Anonymous said...

The Mad Anthony race was promoted by Trails-Edge and the Midwest Cycling. They weren't part of the Tailwind series so it seemed like a bunch of races boycotted the event or just didn't bother. The race was so 360 degrees different than Tailwind. It wasn't in a park, it was in an old army fort. Parking cost $5, but entry was $15. After the racing they all loaded up their trucks and headed over to Mexican town for beer and burritos. I even made it in that vid about 1:20 in.

That race was super cool!

Anonymous said...

So you ate saying that at tailwind races, there are only 4 other people who are eligible to race elite who don't?
I think in just the 45+ field there are that many cat 1s and 2s. I think making 35+ and 45 cat 3/4 only would help fill the elite out rather nicely.

master racer said...

At Mad Anthony they only had 40+ and they raced them combined with the Elite field, which seemed to work out fine. There were only 3 race starts, which made it easier to watch friends vs. racing at 10am and then having to wait till 130pm for your buddy to finish.

Anonymous said...

My License says Road 5 /Junior
Brandon Goocher

Anonymous said...

I agree, Mad Anthony and Lung Buster were the coolest. They had a lot of C's and B's turn out. I left early but did watch the Elites, there were like 4 at each race.

Anonymous said...

Trends in this sport constantly change. They come and go just as the people who make up the scene. The race model is constantly being tweeked. However, good promotors are trend setters. They have the vision and drive to motivate and give people a quality experience thats worth the effort. They draw people to the event by whatever means possible. Personally, that's my bigest problem. Its not the money or the drive. I just dont feel motivated to be at the events this year.

Anonymous said...

The race scene here is like a gym membership. You go in, grind out your workout, check out a few hot asses if you're lucky and then go home.

Anonymous said...

My License says Road 5 /Junior
Brandon Goocher


does your parents know you visit such a naughty website?

Anonymous said...

^^^^^^^
LMAO

Anonymous said...

DOPAGE

Anonymous said...

You want to have fewer races? You still want to have competitive events? Then handicap the cross races. If nothing else it would be awesome to watch the elites make there way through the 30 racers who started in front of them.

Anonymous said...

I was in Trails-Edge and overheard the promoter of the Mad Anthony race telling the shop guys he was working on making that race the biggest CX in Michigan.

I'm there in 2010!!!

Anonymous said...

I got it!!
Lets take a chain and wrap it around a log and attach it to wiz. Or make the elites go without eating for 24hoirs before a race! Think of it like a restrictor plate or something…
Eh, probably wouldnt make that big of a difference.

Anonymous said...

OK

Anonymous said...

this is getting
C R A Z Y now

Anonymous said...

QUOTE

Trends in this sport constantly change. They come and go just as the people who make up the scene. The race model is constantly being tweeked. However, good promotors are trend setters. They have the vision and drive to motivate and give people a quality experience thats worth the effort. They draw people to the event by whatever means possible. Personally, that's my bigest problem. Its not the money or the drive. I just dont feel motivated to be at the events this year.

that is the most sensible post yet.

Anonymous said...

^^ you must have missed ithica ^^

for the third year in a row

Anonymous said...

Let's end all of this talk...
One race per weekend.
All classes combined including women and children.
No call up procedure. Line up and shut up.
Winner take all.

The pros.
Stacked field. Easy to score since Robert has the timing system. We all can go home early. Including the Tailwind crew.

The cons.
It will hurt if you have the balls to actually pedal your bike like you're supposed to in a race.

Anybody in?

Anonymous said...

^^^^^^^^^
i like it

Anonymous said...

im in

Anonymous said...

fuck you bitch, ill slam dat booty.

Anonymous said...

All this talk is great but if no one talks to the race organizers to all get on the same page it won't help.
Alot of things need to be address.
1.How the classes are set for the good of the sport.
2.New location, It can be in the same parks but at a different location. Lower Huron, Stoney, Bloomer
3. Propotion need to be address. Fliers need to be put back into stores with the sponcers names on them. Sponcers should have there names at all the races. Just not the one they sponcer.
4. Course design. Take out all barries before the sand and the hills . If you can ride it the better, or put the logs far enough apart to be able to ride them. I remember trying to ride the hill at Lower huron and ride the logs at Munson. I also remember Foshag and Jeff W jumping the barriers. That kept everone until the end of the day to see who could would do.

People need to speak up

Anonymous said...

There are plenty of fast dudes in the state- problem is they never toe the line together at the same race. Agree with Joe B. on this point whole heartedly. The race calendar is too diluted. East series, West series, USAC sponsored, non-USAC sponsored etc. Simultaneous and multiple road, CX, and mtb races every weekend that draw racers in different directions. On the one hand it's nice having the options but you're not necessarily racing against the top talent in the state. Result = small elite fields. There's no overall Michigan series in mtb and cx and as a result both disciplines are hurting for it - especially the elites. There's an Oakland Co. series, a Washtenaw series, and a Grand Rapids area series. Oh well.

the MICHIGANSCENE said...

we couldnt of said it better all of you!!!
..THIS thead is the the exact reason why we do this blog, not for shock, not for chaos, and not to stir the pot... but to get some thoughts and ideas on how to keep the Miscene alive and keep going in a direction that would be a benefit to all.

you guys are great.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, TMS. I feel warm and fuzzy.

Anonymous said...

I miss the toecutter.

the MICHIGANSCENE said...

NO WAY
EVERYONE HATED THAT BASTARD 2 SEASONS AGO.

Anonymous said...

ithica

weres that?

jbhancock said...

Those who know, know.

And those who can spell know too.

mlovejoy said...

Sorry, I'm not seeing it. Let's say Kisscross and Tailwind both agreed and cut each of their series by half. Then, the thinking is that the elite guys from GR are going to start making they're way to Detroit for racing and vice-versa? Maybe. But, I bet most will be spending more time with their family, riding local rogue cross/mtb/road events, bitchin about not having many races close by, etc. Maybe someday someone will organize a state-wide series that keeps track of results from a handful of select events across promotors that could at least concentrate the out of town elites to the same events. That might work, but it would mean work for someone. Reducing the no. of races would only lose money for promotors and piss most of the locals off who just want to have something fun to do during the fall. In the mean time, reduce the races/categories to incresae field size.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, I hear that they just got electric street lights and indoor flush toilets in Ithaca. . .

Anonymous said...

DOPAGE

Anonymous said...

"In the mean time, reduce the races/categories to incresae field size"

Mlovejoy speaks the most sense for a fix for the time being. maybe in 10.

if that happens i would come back and race cross.


RF

HATER-OF-FAKES said...

MAN i gotta hand it to you tms, you sure have touched a nerve on this one, 2 months ago no one on this site gave 2 shits about cross.

It amazes me that a site that shows little, to no cycling, gets this many hits from people that do.
UNREAL

Anonymous said...

Almost "Knocks you on your ass", eh?
Thorazine.
Get it?
WHEE!!

Anonymous said...

this may be alittle late in the post, but i wonder why Tailwind moved the masters to the last race of the day on there schedule? it would seem to me all the 35+ have family's , kids etc...and by puting them to the end, only eats up more of the day, for the guys with more commitments, It sure didnt help the elites.


just a thought.

Anonymous said...

Be nice if the races east and west side weren't pretty much stacked on top of each other. Some of us will race both sides of the state. More CX racing = good stuff.

Eye of Ghetto said...

If there are less races on the west side the GR guys won't drive to the east side for cross races. Except for maybe 5 or 10 of them who are serious about cross. For the rest of us, we're only doing it because its conveinient and it a way to get some decent training in WITHOUT driving across the state.

So most of you guys are full of it on your conclusion that more races it is more better

Anonymous said...

So most of you guys are full of it on your conclusion that more races it is more better


i have to agree as well.

Anonymous said...

WILL THE MADNESS EVER CEASE?

Anonymous said...

There is too much overlap in the classes. Why are "4's" allowed to race in the Master's 35+ and B race? 4's are 4's and should all race together. It would create a huge field and they could still be scored based on their age category.

This seems pretty simple. The classes need to be set by the licenses.

The Master's 35+ guys are running nearly the same lap times as the Elites. All of the top Elites in Tailwind are over 35+ anyway. Combine Elite with Master's 35+ field and just have Elite Master's 35+. Wiz and Wienert don't race Elite/PRO at National events like USGP. They race MASTERS.

The categories could/should look like this:

Cat 4 = Cat 4 Master's 35+, Cat 4 Master's 45+, and Cat 4 Open. Cat 4Single Speed.

Cat 2/3 = Anyone who holds Cat 2/3 license under 35 years of age. Single Speed.

Elite Master's 35+/45+ = Anyone who holds Cat 1/2/3 license over 35years of age.

Women/Juniors - All ages and categories.

At the end of the year, the top 5 in each class MUST move up.